Comments on: Boys Will Be Boys Will Be… Killers?

By: idyllicmollusk

idyllicmollusk — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:22:56 +0000

@Ann:

Thanks for commenting and providing more information. The context you mention helps me understand your article better. When I first read it, I didn’t understand why you were focusing so much on Mr. Conroy.

The tone of the article and the quotes presented continue to have a “But he was a wholesome all-American boy!” kind of feel for me. After a member of a community commits an unspeakable crime, their communities often claim that he was a “nice guy” and they had “no idea.” But really, all the signs are usually there, we just choose to look past them when their implications are unpleasant, or when we are defending “one of our own.”

By: Anne Barnard

Anne Barnard — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:04:12 +0000

FYI:
See this followup story on how the Lucero case was only one of a series of attacks that Latinos say they experienced at the hands of gangs of mostly white teenagers in Patchogue. See also the web-only supplement detailing all the alleged cases we found in a month of reporting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/nyregion/09patchogue.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/nyregion/09patchoguesidebar.html?ref=nyregion

BTW, the earlier Conroy story you reference should be viewed in the context of the NYT’s extensive coverage of Lucero, his funeral, the reaction to his death etc. I was given the narrow assignment of writing a profile of Conroy, but other stories explored many other aspects of the case and of Marcelo Lucero. The quotes about Conroy having friends of all races were from his supporters — not the opinion of the NYT. We also quoted Fernando Mateo making the point you raise — that whoever his friends were, his alleged behavior is that he beat up people because of their race. Some other contextualizing quotes about how people with diverse friends could still commit racist acts were unfortunately cut for space.

In any case, glad you are following this issue.

By: Vicente Duque

Vicente Duque — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:52:00 +0000

This is incredible ! … Two Latinos have been brutally killed in New York City in less than a month :

Jose Sucuzhanay and Marcelo Lucero in Long Island, New York City.

Add these to the brutal beating and kicking that took the life of Luis Ramirez in Shenandoah Pennsylvania last July.

These Brutal Murders are repugnant. The special Cruelty, Sadism and Inhumanity. The victims were all hard working, peaceful, honest and nice people.

I would consider all these attackers as perfect Terrorists and Cowards.

I have a blog to denounce Racial Murders and Racial Hatred. And to profile the good things of the Victims and their Poor families :

Raciality.com

Vicente Duque

By: Dee

Dee — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:07:46 +0000

I agree! These “kids” do need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law for this murder. The punishment should not be less because they are good looking jocks.

BTW, I like your blog! I mentioned it in the comments on my blog today.

By: marisol

marisol — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:57:39 +0000

these kids deserve to stay in jail forever they left marcelo to die none of them deserve bail this is a justice thing not money how would you people like that if it was your brother these kids ruin the town of patchogue they need to stay in jail and play with bubba bubba will take care of them.

By: idyllicmollusk

idyllicmollusk — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:17:53 +0000

In mundane situations, you know what my fave defense of the indefensible is? “He’s really a great/nice guy, but…” Just think about it for a minute. I’m betting that every time you’ve heard this phrase, it is followed by something utterly inexcusable, that more than negates the “He’s really a great guy” part of the sentence.

Like somehow a person’s [totally shitty] actions don’t give you any clues to who they really are. Instead, it’s some third person’s endorsement that we should use when forming an opinion about the specimen under discussion.

This particular sentence structure seems to crop up most when defending horrible male chauvinist actions.

But in this discussion of Jeffrey Conroy & friends, I sensed that their community was crying out a huge collective “THEY’RE ACTUALLY NICE GUYS, IT’S JUST THAT…”

By: Dori

Dori — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:35:06 +0000

Stuff like this happens a lot when dealing with privileged groups. You see it frequently in defense of rapists, that they aren’t really “like that” and that they just made a “stupid mistake.”

With something like this, there is almost a kneejerk reaction to defend ones own race/gender/class/ etc so that the discussion can stay about the privileged people, then we don’t have to talk about systemic oppression, or cultures that encourage these actions.

If every rapist just made a “stupid mistake” and every person who commits a hate crime “isn’t really like that” then we can pretend like these are isolated cases instead of symptoms of a wider sickness.

(lovin’ the blog btw!)